In this thought-provoking podcast episode, host Robert Breedlove engages in a deep discussion with Jonathan B, an entrepreneur and intellectual, about his latest project, “The Great Books of the West.” This lecture and interview series delves into the Western Canon, exploring the foundational books that have shaped Western civilization. The conversation touches on a wide range of topics, including mimetic desire, the role of literature in understanding human nature, the relationship between achievement and being an “asshole,” inequality in America, and the importance of monogamy in satisfying the desire for recognition.
Key Takeaways:
- The Great Books as an instruction manual for living a good life
- Jonathan shares his personal journey of turning to the great books as a guide for aligning his internal world and desires.
- These books contain the “source code of civilization” and help individuals understand the foundational ideas that shape society, especially during times of flux.
- Engaging with the great books allows readers to delve deeper into the “human OS” and recognize that seemingly fixed aspects of the world are malleable.
Relevant quote: “The world is in flux and that’s why we need to revisit these great books because they contain the source code of civilization.” – Jonathan B
- The importance of myth and literature in human cognition and culture
- Myths and literature serve as an “external hard drive” of human cognition and civilization, containing the latent cultural programming that shapes moral intuitions and codes of conduct.
- These stories are not mere fiction but distillations of general patterns observed across many instances of human interaction, making them “hyperreal.”
- Engaging with these stories allows individuals to internalize models of being and develop maturity through the imitation of virtuous characters.
Relevant quote: “It almost starts to feel to me like an owner’s manual for being human, right? It’s like you’re looking at the human OS or the human source code.” – Robert Breedlove
- The role of mimetic desire in human behavior and achievement
- Mimetic desire, a concept introduced by René Girard, posits that humans are fundamentally imitative creatures, driven by a desire to imitate others.
- This desire can manifest as both positive zeal, motivating individuals to improve themselves, and negative jealousy, leading to resentment and attempts to undermine others’ success.
- Understanding mimetic desire can help individuals navigate their own motivations and choose role models wisely, while also recognizing the potential for both great achievement and asshole-like behavior in highly successful individuals.
Relevant quote: “Mimetic desire, even when it’s bad, is essentially good because it’s fundamental openness. If you think about what enables mimetic desire, it’s our ability to reach into the subjectivity of others.” – Jonathan B
Guest Background: Jonathan B is an entrepreneur and intellectual whose latest project, “The Great Books of the West,” aims to make the foundational works of Western civilization accessible to a broader audience. Through lectures and interviews with top professors, Jonathan explores the core ideas and insights contained within these books, shedding light on the principles that shape human nature and society.
Counterarguments and Limitations: While the discussion offers valuable insights into the role of literature, mimetic desire, and inequality in shaping human behavior and society, some of the arguments presented may be oversimplified or overgeneralized. For example, attributing the rise of victim culture solely to the influence of Christianity may overlook other historical and cultural factors. Additionally, the glorification of “asshole-like” behavior in highly successful individuals, as suggested by Nietzsche, may not adequately consider the negative impacts on those around them or society as a whole.
Implications and Actionable Insights:
- Engaging with the great books of Western civilization can provide individuals with a deeper understanding of human nature, society, and the principles that shape them.
- Recognizing the role of mimetic desire in one’s own life can help individuals make more conscious choices about their motivations and the role models they choose to imitate.
- While inequality may drive a certain level of productive “frenzy” in society, it is essential to balance this with concerns for social cohesion and the well-being of all members of society.
- Cultivating a strong sense of individual identity and purpose, rather than relying solely on external recognition, can help individuals navigate the challenges posed by mimetic desire and the desire for esteem.
Conclusion: This engaging discussion between Robert Breedlove and Jonathan B highlights the enduring relevance of the great books in understanding human nature and the principles that shape society. By exploring concepts such as mimetic desire, the role of myth and literature, and the relationship between achievement and personal behavior, the conversation offers valuable insights into the complexities of the human experience. While some arguments may be subject to debate, the overall message emphasizes the importance of engaging with foundational works of literature and philosophy to gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us.
Additional Impactful Quotes from the Podcast:
- “It was really the great books and philosophy and literature that I saw was an instruction manual for living a good life, for sort of lining up your desires, for helping you understand what we’re here to do.” – Jonathan B
- “A bone that I have to pick is this whole idea that we have identified the word myth with untruth in the West, and it couldn’t be further from the truth.” – Robert Breedlove
- “You abstract out the essence, the moral essence of like, what did we learn from all of this, and you get all of that compressed into this very palatable narrative.” – Robert Breedlove
- “You don’t need to have interacted with Jesus of Nazareth to imitate Jesus of Nazareth, just through the stories that have been told about him.” – Robert Breedlove
- “When things are working, you don’t necessarily need to go to the foundational layer of these ideas. You don’t need to ask, ‘What is money?’ That’s a great example.” – Jonathan B
- “The world is in flux and that’s why we need to revisit these great books because they contain the source code of civilization.” – Jonathan B
Related Resources:
- “Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World” by René Girard
- “Beyond Good and Evil” by Friedrich Nietzsche
- “The Genealogy of Morality” by Friedrich Nietzsche
- “The Social Contract” and “Discourse on Inequality” by Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Thank you for reading “Recap and Analysis: How Jealousy and Zeal Drive the Human Condition with Johnathan Bi (WiM473)“.
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